Episode Discussion and Pre-Finale Poll

[keeper-of-stars.livejournal.com]

Wigs and heels don’t go on for a few hours yet, but let’s get the T flowing now!

Just a few things to keep in mind…
~ Try to stay on topic. This is an episode discussion after all.
~ Don’t be throwin’ no shade towards your fellow LJ-ers. (Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.)
~ Since this is an episode discussion, there will be spoilers in the comments. Enter at your own risk.
~ Please do not post spoilers for upcoming episodes.
~ And of course, don’t forget to werk.

Also, don’t forget that @rupaulsdragrace is once again holding their contest to win a prize pack! Just re-tweet the specified message and you’re entered.


[Poll #1881335]

Comments

[lastshotringing.livejournal.com]

I want to pick a winner, but I can't. I love them all & will be happy with whoever wins!

[dragleficent.livejournal.com]

Raven as runner-up AGAIN? I mean, are you serious Rupaul?
I'm afraid of season 5 right now. ughhh :(

[keeper-of-stars.livejournal.com]

I'm right there with you. Raven should have won. :(

[pharna.livejournal.com]

I don't hate Chad, my comments for S4 posts should back that but good GOD, I think Chad won when she shouldn't have way too many times.

But oh Raven, you sure nipped her heels and left some mighty teeth marks in them.

[noapologiesx.livejournal.com]

I should know by now that Ru will never pick the person I root for. Sigh.

[anansie-s.livejournal.com]

Ru clearly loves Raven too, though. :)

[entj.livejournal.com]

They all did a remarkable job with a really major challenge. Good grief ... all those outfits, the interview, the speech, the comedy routine, and the obligatory runway ... I don't blame Juju for saying she was "stwessed!"

I am delighted with the results -- it's the first time my favorite ever won. That being said, who I am really most genuinely happy for is Shannel -- I feel like her being in the Top 4 was kind of an apology for how she was treated during S1, and I just about fell over when Santino was complimentary of her runway outfit. That little surprised smile she gave ... I just found that very touching, especially in context of her story on Untucked. I have always liked her - she and Nina were my two favorites in S1, and I was glad to see her get a moment in the sun, finally. She was truly happy just to be included, and I thought that was sweet.

Much as I love the queens, and I do not blame them for one single second -- they gave it their all ... I felt like the challenges and overall direction of this season was a little lackluster. To me, it felt rushed, and I did not like the team situation at all. I really hope they don't repeat that. Basketball, Ru? Speeches for a hamburger joint? And RuPaul's Gaff-In? Let us never speak of it again. Back to Snatch Game, please.

Does anyone know if we're going to get a reunion show, or is this it for All Stars?

[noapologiesx.livejournal.com]

I agree, mostly. I definitely was not fond of the teams either. Hopefully if there's another All Stars season they'll have learned from that mistake.

Also, I just feel like I need to point out that Hamburger Mary's is kind of a big thing in the gay/drag community. Tons of RPDR queens have performed in their locations around the US, so I found it very fitting. I agree 100% about Gaff-In though. It didn't work at all. :/

[entj.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the education on Hamburger Mary's! No, seriously, thank you. I had honestly never heard of it before tonight. After your comment, I checked their web site. The map on the front page (http://www.hamburgermarys.com/) with that large blue swath on the East Coast where they aren't? That's where I live. ;) So, even though I've traveled a decent amount, it's understandable that I wasn't familiar with them. Atlanta has a significant drag community, but there's no Hamburger Mary's here.

[noapologiesx.livejournal.com]

No problem. :) lol I live on the east coast too, so I hadn't heard of it either until I happened to see that Pandora was performing at one a while back. I keep telling myself that next time I'm in Orlando I'll go, but it hasn't happened yet.

[kapvik.livejournal.com]

I feel so bad. I'm in Long Beach where HM's is a few miles away. But the RDR queens always perform on Tuesdays, and I work, so I can never go and see them. :(

[anansie-s.livejournal.com]

I'm thrilled at Chad's win too! I really feel like she's given a lot to the community and is so talented and sweet and she just deserves it, and more. She's mentored so many people, as well.

Raven grew on me so much, too. She came across as a lot more relateable this season. And even fiercer. Her makeup on the runway almost killed me, it was so gorgeous.

I like your thoughts on Shannel.

I heard that there's not going to be a reunion show, sadly.

[entj.livejournal.com]

Thank you, sugar! I appreciate the kind words about my thoughts on Shannel. I've seen so much criticism of her in the past few days, and I'm like, "Dayum, people, what did this queen ever do to you?" :)

You bring up a good point. I came out of Raven's season really disliking her, and yes, I know much of the shade was for TV, and yes, I've heard she's really sweet to her fans in person. Raven enthusiasts, please reread that sentence and the final paragraph before you rush to her defense. :) Nevertheless, in my opinion, she became relentless about Tatianna (can't edit it that way without source material), and I was kind of proud of Tati for standing up for herself at the reunion show. I just searched the 'net, and I don't see any indication that they've healed the rift, so someone please fill me in if that's so.

Do I think Tatianna was as fierce as Raven at that point? No, but I also think that she showed tremendous potential for someone who was still establishing herself in the drag scene. Tati got a lot of flak for being pretty and using the face she just happened to be born with, while Carmen was the prettiest of the Heathers during her season and only occasionally got the occasional mumble about not having much range beyond being a body queen. Kind of a double standard, in my opinion. I don't think Tati is the greatest drag queen ever and I found the "T with Tati" snippet totally boring this season, but I think there's at least more to her than some of her rivals gave her credit for at that time.

However, that being said, time seems to have mellowed Raven a little bit if All Stars can be considered an indicator. Admittedly, she was unnecessarily rude to Mimi, but she did say what a lot of people were thinking. Rather than being the attack dog this time, she seemed more like the voice of candor. It was also balanced by the warmth of her friendship with Juju -- that helped humanize her, in my eyes. I doubt she'll ever be my favorite queen, but I respect her versatility and her talent, and her behind-the-scenes personality has softened enough for me to enjoy her front-of-the-house work more than I did in S2. I do like her on the Orbitz commercial, as I said.

[anansie-s.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Drag Race fans can be pretty vicious about individual queens they don't like! It gets real ugly sometimes.

That being said, my feelings about Raven are so all over the place. I was completely Team Tatianna when season 2 happened, mostly because she got picked on so much by Raven. And I hadn't thought about how differently Carmen was treated. Hm, interesting. Funny that Tati is the one who was accused (by people including Sonique I think!) of being trans and not 'really' drag.

But, on the other hand. These days I watch her Showgirlsweho stuff when I'm having a bad day sometimes! Have you seen that? It's her regular weekly gig that she (almost always) hosts and performs at. She scares people and it's sort of hilarious. Here's one (two-parter) with her full jail experience story:

[kapvik.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree with you more. Raven was totally in the wrong and reprehensible in Season 2, but did a very good job of presenting herself in a better light during All-Stars. She was always talented, but at least this time around I respect her more.

I wasn't aware of Carmen getting any special treatment (other than from a few tranny chasers I spoke to who openly rooted for her simply because they were into her like that). I definitely didn't think she was more talented than Tatianna. Tati still has a lot of room to grow before she's on par with the upper-level queens, but Carmen was just so...dull all the time. Of all the contestants on all the seasons, Carmen was the only one I ever looked at and genuinely wondered why she made it on here.

[vforvermilion.livejournal.com]

Condragulations to Chad Michaels, even though I really wished Raven could have won.... But well it's a hunger game and the odds were in Chad's favor.

[kapvik.livejournal.com]

I will admit that at least after the first episode, I came to respect Raven more as a contestant this time around. She was still Raven, but classier. She just wasn't classier than Chad, who I maintain is the perfected version of what Raven aspires to. But as much as I am satisfied with the result, WTF RuPaul? Raven doesn't get an exit talking head? Cold.

So does Delta's cameo mean that she, like Ongina, was asked back, but had other commitments? And wow, still a little bitter clearly.

The challenges were a lot like Shannel's comedy - scattered and frenetic. And more often than not there wasn't clear evidence of who had succeeded.

-Interview was kind of BS and meaningless; just an excuse to generate shade and for someone to win by not letting anyone get a word in edgewise. Great practice for replacing someone on The View, but not much else.
-Hamburger Mary's: I was too busy looking at the burgers and trying to remember what was in them. All I can recall is that either Raven's or Shannel's had at least one gross ingredient, and I think I liked Jujubee's recipe the best. And I wasn't feeling Raven's Xanadu realness.
-Comedy Store: I liked Jujubee's overall set the best, but that's probably because she stole the "old Asian lady" bit from Margaret Cho. Shannel sucked. Chad's last joke was the best, but she fake-cried too long and screwed up her timing. Raven's set was the most relevant and postmodern, and props to her for being frank about jail.

And what was the point of that Amazing Race "navigate through traffic in order to get to waypoint X on time" nonsense? Is RuPaul just ripping off *all* the reality shows now? Next cycle is she going to force the queens to bring a pack of knives and cook something under a 3-hour time limit?

I like Jujubee and Shannel individually, but I think they're just a little less versatile than Raven and Chad. Shannel in particular suffers from this, and her reason why she should win kind of nailed it: because she can juggle, because she can ride a unicycle, because she wears costumes, etc. If she had offered more than just what is expected from Shannel, she would have gone further. Putting aside the very likely argument that RuPaul often just crowns whichever queen is most like her, the ideal winner of RPDR should be someone who brings their own star quality to the table, but who can also take elements from RuPaul and incorporate them into herself, and finally turn out a fusion that elevates her own persona. Chad and Raven, I believe, have been more successful at doing this, while Shannel just tries to win with only pure Shannelism. Jujubee is a more unpredictable quandry; she's just too hit-or-miss.

During LSFYL, both Chad and Raven had their good points. Raven was more creative and irreverent with her performance, while Chad could have been Madonna or some other diva actually performing the song in an arena. But during Chad's runway and her performance, she just exuded such genuine (seeming, perhaps) joy. And while Raven has grown and continues to surprise you, she doesn't do "joy". So at times it felt that Raven was just acting, and at others like she was holding back too much the way they accused Jujubee of doing. And she shouldn't do the robot; it's never going to be as good as Pandora's.

So yeah, I have to give it to Chad. She was just the winningest this time around.

[myswtghst.livejournal.com]

The hardest part for me with the finale was that there really wasn't any suspense. Team Shad won the majority of the recent challenges, and Chad was clearly head and shoulders above Shannel in most respects, so it was pretty anti-climactic. Juju killed it in the comedy challenge, but wasn't strong enough overall to take the win. For me, Raven was honestly the most well-rounded, and did the best overall in the final challenges, but based on recent visits to the bottom two (whether they were deserved or not), I didn't feel like she had a chance to win, no matter how well she did. In the end, while I like Chad a great deal, and I am happy for her, my heart was broken for Raven, and it just wasn't very satisfying.

In the end, the most rewarding part of the whole season was probably seeing Shannel in the Untucked episode - talking about her Mom, and then explaining to the other queens in the silver bar that she didn't need to win, but was proud of herself for this redemption. It was the most realistic and relatable I can remember seeing her, and I was really happy for her.

Overall, I still hold that this season was a let down. It was exciting to see a lot of the queens I love from past seasons back in the game, and great to see the new relationships being built (hello Latrila!), but the team format and shortened cycle made the whole thing bland, blah, and sometimes altogether disappointing. I know I've said this before, but it didn't feel like we got a winner who was truly the best of all the queens, because we didn't get to compare them individually. The queens who didn't have the luck to have their bestie in the competition suffered for it, and we saw some really talented queens go home far too early. Here's hoping they learn from this, and if there is another All Stars Cycle, they let the queens work on their own.

[entj.livejournal.com]

You brought up something good here -- I think Latrice and Manila could have a really beautiful friendship, and I liked seeing that. I think, too, that it will last -- both of them understand what it is to go through the wringer of that competition.

[lucifuge-5.livejournal.com]

I wasn't surprised by the win since I realized that Chad's plan was to shed her Drag Mother persona for something with a little bit more edge. Raven showed the most growth (jumping over Jujubee--who had been one of my faves to win.) Shannel, imho, didn't have much of a chance.

The finale challenges were OK. Though I didn't like the interview (I think it'd have worked better if it'd been set up individually), I liked the HM bit. The comedy part was cool for everyone except Shannel (who BOMBED!) Though I do understand the need to compress a whole season into a shorter one, I hope that MamaRu and co look closely at what did and didn't work for All-Stars so that the possible next season will run smoother.